|
|
Post by pede on Sept 25, 2008 19:38:17 GMT -5
Town:
DK--Vig
Roleblocker--Jigglypuff
Detective--Ness
Empath--Krystal
Special Schizo--Mr. Game & Watch
Coroner--Mario
Governor/White Mage/Lover--Zelda
Aegis--Pit
Paranoid Doc/Commuter--Toon Link
Bulletproof/Bomb--Solid Snake
Martyr/Redirector/Vig Poisoner--Pokemon Trainer
Involuntary Backup--Metaknight
Daykill Vig/Mason--Ganondorf
Tracker/Mason--Wolf
Doublevoter/Scotsman--Ice Climbers
Scum:
Godfather--Tabuu
Pollux Oil's Necromancer--Captain Olimar
Mutator--Dark Samus
Lover/Ninja--Sheik
Mason/Roleblocker--King Dedede
Poisoner--Princess Peach
PFK:
Grudgeholder/Hitlist/Serial Killer/Redirector--Mewtwo
Sidekick/Survivor/War--Diddy Kong
Mad Bomber--Yoshi
|
|
|
|
Post by pede on Oct 1, 2008 7:33:07 GMT -5
Roles Sorted by Power and Pointed:
(IMPORTANT! DO NOT MESS UP!)
Town:
Ice Climbers (5)
Pokemon Trainer (1.5+3+1.5*2%3=4)
Ganondorf (1.5+4%2=2.525)
Ness (2)
Toon Link (1.5+2+1.5%2=2.5)
Zelda (0+2-1+1=2, maybe less)
Pit (3.5)
Krystal (2)
Jigglypuff (1.5)
Mr. Game & Watch (1.5)
Bowser (1.5+1-2+1=1.5)
Wolf (1.5+.5=2)
Solid Snake (1.5+.5=2)
Variable:
Mario (1.5/3/5)
Meta Knight (2/3/4/5)
Diddy Kong (honorary townie) (2/4/6-1.5)
Total: 37.125 to 47.625
Scum:
King Dedede (6.5+.5=7)
Tabuu (7)
Captain Olimar (6+7+7+7%4-1=5.75)
Sheik (6+2-3=5)
MewTwo (4%2+1.5-1=2.5)
Variable:
Princess Peach (4 if most glasses are undrunk/7/9=4/7/9)
Dark Samus: (6/8)
Total: 37.25 to 45.25
ModNotes: All roles have ranges, but the ones under variable are particularly unusual or hard to parse roles. This means that the role may end up being used extrordinarily powerfully (e.g. sach as the coroner, AH as the Pol, bishop in Recruitment), or extremely badly (e.g. beat cop in M2, darth sensetive as recruiting godfather, Boozy as John Conner(seriously, I had so much planned for that role)), meaning the spread is noticible enough that it should be planned for.
|
|
|
|
Post by naf1138 on Oct 14, 2008 17:42:16 GMT -5
Roles Sorted by Power and Pointed: (IMPORTANT! DO NOT MESS UP!) Town: Ice Climbers (5/6) Pokemon Trainer (1.5+3+1.5-1=5) Mr. Game & Watch (3) Ganondorf (1.5+4%2=2.525) Ness (2) Toon Link (1.5+2+1.5%2=2.5) Zelda (0+2-1+1=2, maybe less) Pit (6-(Num of days-5)=?) Krystal (2) Jigglypuff (1.5) Bowser (1.5+2-2=1.5) Wolf (1.5+.5=2) Solid Snake (1.1) Pikachu (0, maybe less) Unranked: Metaknight, Mario Scum: King Dedede (6.5+4=10.5) Dark Samus (7?/8?/9?/more?) Tabuu (7) Captain Olimar (6+7+7+7%4=6.75) Sheik (6-3=3) Unranked: Princess Peach Hmm, I am not totally sure you pointed this up right. I have been reading the roles on and off all day. I will try to sit down tonight or tomorrow and point it up myself without looking at yours and see if it balances with what you have. As it is, I think that you have town underpointed and at least one scum role underpointed. |
|
|
|
Post by pede on Oct 21, 2008 9:29:27 GMT -5
So...how would you point them?
|
|
|
|
Post by naf1138 on Oct 21, 2008 10:41:03 GMT -5
So...how would you point them? Sorry, got wrapped up in the Marvel game. I will work on this today. |
|
|
|
Post by pede on Oct 24, 2008 0:15:34 GMT -5
Roles Sorted by Power and Pointed: (IMPORTANT! DO NOT MESS UP!) Town: Ice Climbers (5) Pokemon Trainer (1.5+3+1.5*2%3=4) Ganondorf (1.5+4%2=2.525) Ness (2) Toon Link (1.5+2+1.5%2=2.5) Zelda (0+2-1+1=2, maybe less) Pit (3.5) Krystal (2) Jigglypuff (1.5) Mr. Game & Watch (1.5) Bowser (1.5+1-2+1=1.5) Wolf (1.5+.5=2) Solid Snake (1.5+.5=2) Variable: Mario (1.5/3/5) Meta Knight (2/3/4/5) Diddy Kong (honorary townie) (2/4/6-1.5) Total: 37.125 to 47.625 Scum: King Dedede (6.5+.5=7) Tabuu (7) Captain Olimar (6+7+7+7%4-1=5.75) Sheik (6+2-3=5) MewTwo (4%2+1.5-1=2.5) Variable: Princess Peach (4 if most glasses are undrunk/7/9=4/7/9) Dark Samus: (6/8) Total: 37.25 to 45.25 ModNotes: All roles have ranges, but the ones under variable are particularly unusual or hard to parse roles. This means that the role may end up being used extrordinarily powerfully (e.g. sach as the coroner, AH as the Pol, bishop in Recruitment), or extremely badly (e.g. beat cop in M2, darth sensetive as recruiting godfather, Boozy as John Conner(seriously, I had so much planned for that role)), meaning the spread is noticible enough that it should be planned for. Woo! Balance at last! Anything inaccurate/problematic/overorunderpowered that I'm missing? |
|
|
|
Post by naf1138 on Oct 24, 2008 12:40:45 GMT -5
Ok, I did my first work up on the town side. I used your most recent list as my basis.
Sorry this is taking me so long, but it took a few hours to write this thing up and I don't always have that kind of time.
So each role, with notes and my feelings on how they are pointed up. My final point tally at the bottom.
Town:
Ice Climbers (5) - Don’t see the role PM for this one anymore. I will say I trust you and keep it at a 5.
Pokemon Trainer (1.5+3+1.5*2%3=4) - I really like this role too. I wouldn’t put it at a 4 though, maybe a 3. Not being able to use any pokemon on any day is a downside (a good one) that weakens the role.
Ganondorf (1.5+4%2=2.525) – he’s a mason so that starts him at 3 pts. (see below.) add a point to that for potential vigging. +5 town.
Ness (2) – if they investigate the name do they get alignment too? I say a full 4pts if they do. I would go higher but I think that drawing it out over multiple Nights makes the difference.
Toon Link (1.5+2+1.5%2=2.5) - I am down with this.
Zelda (0+2-1+1=2, maybe less)
I think you are undervaluing Zelda. There is a lot I like about the role. I like the 24 hour delay Doc idea. I like that he has the ability to roleblock (but proofread that PM, it took me a while to figure out exactly what he does). But he has the ability to take out a scum by getting himself killed. This is a big power. Think about it a bit. He is a weak doc and a lynch stopper. His best play is to claim early and have the town lynch him when they need to catch up on mislynches. I would give him a 3 at least. Maybe a 4. I might considered rethinking the role a bit as a whole and seeing if he is really doing what you want.
Pit (3.5) – Nothing I don’t like about this role. 3.5 sounds about right. Maybe a touch high. I would say 3, but it’s splitting hairs.
Krystal (2) – traditional cop. 2.5 at least (either Krystal or Ness is a backup really, and I pointed Ness first). Maybe 3.5 because of synergy with Ness.
Jigglypuff (1.5) – works for me.
Mr. Game & Watch (1.5) – Oy, I didn’t see this role before. I don’t know how much I like it. It is HIGHLY variable and the powers are not controllable. I am not sure how much fun it would be to play.
Bowser (1.5+1-2+1=1.5)
Wolf (1.5+.5=2)
We talked about the masons already. But I think that as a whole they are under pointed. Even with the traitor aspect. I would call it 3 points each at minimum. I would make Bowser a 5 and wolf a 4 for the bonus points of their actions.
Solid Snake (1.5+.5=2) - Sort of a weak Scotsman with a retaliatory kill. I think 2 is about right. Maybe 2.5.
Variable:
Mario (1.5/3/5) – I would say you should call it 2 points for the ease of math. Unless you give SCUM the body bag roles as cover roles, then I say make is a 3. It has the potential to be more powerful, but anyone who could make it more powerful than a 3 brings enough to the table anyway that it isn’t in the role.
Meta Knight (2/3/4/5) – I like this role, but have no idea how to point it since the powers will change almost daily. I would call it a 2.5ish for the span of the game. Maybe more on any given Day, but if they survive the whole game I think it would work out to 2.5
Diddy Kong (honorary townie) (2/4/6-1.5) - I don’t quite get how you figure out how the power works. Does it only work on people with variable % roles? Do only those roles count toward Diddy’s win condition? I call him +1 for town, since he could help scum as much as town theoretically. Does he steal the win or does he share the win? That makes a difference.
No more Donkey Kong? You may want the extra kill in the game.
Your numbers:
Total: 37.125 to 47.625
My number:
44.5, add back in Donkey Kong and it’s an even 46.
Add in a Night Start (Day in regular games) and give the town a solid 47 pts with ordinary play.
So things to think about with the town roles. You have 4 Doc types and only 2 Cop types. And 3 extra kills possible on the town side. This isn’t bad, just something you should be aware of. Do you have enough cops for the kills, do you have enough docs etc? Look at the synergies. I haven’t really done that yet for town. No one role seems too powerful, but there is a WHOLE lot of power in the town. Again that isn’t a bad thing, but it might make things confusing if you aren’t careful. I like to shoot for about 30ish points on each side if possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by pede on Oct 24, 2008 21:30:11 GMT -5
Ice Climbers--Post is at the bottom of the thread. But it is a 5.
Pokemon Trainer--Good point. 3.
Ganondorf--I took out Dedede as a mason, and his kill only hits 50% of the time (at best). Add to that it's a nightkill vig, which looks suspicious in its own right. So, (2.5 + 3.5 - 1 - .5 - .5) = 4.
Ness--He never gets alignment. Deliberately so. 2.
Toon Link--2.5
Zelda--Okay, I reworded the PM to be clearer. And it must have been confusing, because it doesn't roleblock anyone. Note that he doesn't know that Shiek is in SCUM. It's implied, but never stated.
So: (0 (lynch stoppers are almost never useful) + 2.5 (weak doc) - 1 (lover) + 1 (can kill scum lover)) = 2.5
Pit--Woo! I like this role too. Just checking: you do mean my Aegis role and not the old Guardian Angel role, right? -- 3
Krystal--Okay, 2.5
Jigglypuff--1.5
Mr. Game & Watch--I actually gave him those powers for a reason. With the exception of 7 and 8, he can verify what each one did (since it reports back), which might help him. It's still not a useful role, but I don't mind that.--1.25
Bowser--I took Dedede off the mason list. His bodyguard role is supposed to be basically useless. Perhaps I should change the shell hand off however?--(2.5 +.5+?)=5?
Wolf--Took Dedede off. 3.5.
Solid Snake--We'll split the difference. 2.25.
DK--Yeah, I just forgot to add him in. 2.5
Mario--2 sounds good.
Meta Knight--I trust your judgment on this one. 2.5
Diddy Kong--In the little things thread, and, now, in Diddy Kong's mod notes, there's a list of what would happen for each person he targeted. Any player would count toward his win con. He shares the win (as does Yoshi). +1 sounds reasonable.
Oh, and here's the list:
All that equals 46. Hmm...there is a problem. I'll have to change some things.
|
|
|
|
Post by pede on Oct 25, 2008 9:11:19 GMT -5
Perhaps I should just remove a townsperson from the list, make it go to 27? If I did that, I'd take off Bowser...but then there'd only be a 2 man mason...but what if I added Dedede back in? Would that work? I think that might work.
|
|
|
|
Post by pede on Oct 28, 2008 23:03:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm going to do that. 24 Roles, and a 3 man mason. (which messes with the pointing again).
|
|
